Brooke, how are you doing?
I am so good.
I'm so happy to be here.
So, you know,
if you have listened to this podcast,
I like to learn more about
the journeys that led you
to becoming the leader, the entrepreneur,
the coach, the woman you are today.
And so reflecting on your early career,
Were there specific
individuals or experiences
that inspired or shaped
your vision of leadership?
Oh, I love this question.
I'm going to say there's
there's two things that I
wanted to draw on.
One of them is not all of you know,
my background is actually
in engineering and I went
to school for way too long
in engineering.
So I got six years.
Yeah.
And the outcome of that, though,
is that I really started to
understand from a very
early age what the
differences were of being a woman,
in my case,
one of the only women in my class.
And so starting to recognize, you know,
1920, that there were gender differences,
which I hadn't experienced
in high school.
And so that was something
for me that really stood out.
So I'd say that really shaped a lot of it.
And then the second one that
really came through for me
was as I started to get in my career,
really leaning into some of
the work that I did where, you know,
a couple of projects that
started to take a toll on my health,
really almost I'll say
losing myself in the work.
And that was probably the
second thing that really
had a strong influence on me.
So one sort of an
environmental and then one
starting to learn to navigate.
Losing yourself in your work,
this sounds way too
familiar for me and I know
for a lot of people
listening to this podcast.
Have you experienced burnout?
That's really interesting.
Not in the way that people describe it.
I have never lost that sense
of complete engagement with
a job because burnout can
take a lot of different forms.
It can be the, I don't want to be here,
but I'm going to take a paycheck.
But it can, right?
And so you literally show up
and that's it.
You just show up and sort of
there's the bare minimum
and you go through the motions,
but you've lost the energy,
the connection to the work.
The other one that I've seen
is that real tie in to just
complete health and a
health collapse that can happen.
And I'm really fortunate.
I haven't had either in
their fullest extent.
But I have certainly had
that position where I
recognized that I need to
make the change.
And I made the change before
I got to that stage.
So you were savvy enough
actually to recognize and
acknowledge because this is
something oftentimes that we don't do.
We may recognize the symptoms,
but it's kind of we refuse
to acknowledge them physically.
thinking that by keeping pushing,
it will just go away.
At least this is the mistake
that I did in the past.
And it never goes away, right?
Because this is your body
telling you there is
something wrong happening
right now that you need to
take into consideration.
But especially when we are high achievers,
we tend to refuse or to deny,
to acknowledge those symptoms.
And then you were smart
enough to understand the symptoms,
but most importantly,
to acknowledge them so you
could avoid to exhaust your
body to the point you would burn out.
It's so true.
And I'll tell you,
it showed up as two things.
The first time I actually
went to I knew I was going
to be going through a
really rough period at work
project that was going sideways.
I knew those were working crazy hours,
like 60, 70 hours a week.
And so I actually went to a
naturopath and just straight out said,
I need to be able to
support myself through this.
So what can we do to get me
through this period?
And so we were looking at supplementation.
We were looking at a whole
series of things that would
support me physically.
And then the second thing
that happened in part of you said,
you know, I recognized it,
but I acknowledged it.
And I will say I had an intervention.
I actually went to my doctor and I said,
listen, I am not OK.
And, you know, I'm not sure what's wrong,
but I know I'm not OK.
Thinking that she's going to
take me some give me some
kind of medication to help
with the symptoms.
And she didn't.
She said,
change your job and then come
back and talk to me.
Really?
She did.
She did it to me twice.
Did you change your job?
I did.
Oh, my goodness.
I love that.
I did.
Never occurred to me.
It just hadn't occurred.
I was so deep in it.
It just never occurred to me to change.
And so I did.
I started looking.
And the first time,
it all worked out well.
And then the second time,
I now recognized.
And I went to her, and I said,
I need some support.
And she said,
not until you change your job.
So yeah, it was really good.
The second time,
set up the circumstances
for myself to make a
graceful exit and had it all planned out.
So let me tell you, first of all,
you have an amazing doctor.
I know.
I live in a constant state
of fear that she's going to
retire because I've been
with her since I was a young girl.
Like, yeah, yeah.
And secondly,
you know what it tells us is
the solution can be quite simple.
Mm-hmm.
Just change your job.
If you evolve an environment
where you feel like it is enough,
that you can no longer take it,
just change it.
And I know it's easier said than done,
but sometimes it can be that easy.
And we tend to
overcomplicate and overthink
a solution when actually it
could be that simple.
And in the one case, it was culture.
In both cases, it was culture.
Yeah.
And what I was looking to
achieve for myself wasn't a
fit with what was being
made available to me.
And the stress of that was
weighing on me so deeply.
And it really informed me in
terms of recognizing it in
others and really starting
to having gone through it,
recognizing some of the
strategies that you can take.
And you're right.
Sometimes it is easier said than done.
Go and change your job.
Well, sometimes that's, you know,
there's a lot of...
moving pieces to make that happen.
But some of it is just the
mindset that that is actually a solution.
Yeah.
Let me let me go back a little bit.
You said you went to school
for six years to study
engineering and you are an engineer.
Have you ever started a
career as an engineer or
did you after you graduated,
did you decide this is
something that was not for you,
which could happen and
decided to follow a different route?
Oh, I love that.
So I actually started six is eight.
I started in my undergrad.
I was in engineering physics
and fell in love with the
physics side of things,
went on and was invited to do a master's.
And I actually have a patent
in semiconductor manufacturing.
Oh, my goodness.
This is so specific.
I've never worked in the field.
I did come away with a
passion for the topic,
but not for what the work
environment would look like.
And so I ended up actually going into,
stayed in research for a while.
But I was different.
I always had something else on the go.
And everyone in the
community knew that about me.
And so I got tapped on the
shoulder and invited to
join a pilot program for
engineers wanting to go
into entrepreneurship.
And so, yeah.
And so I ended up getting a
fuller scholarship to do.
Essentially, it's like an MBA,
but more of a crash course
in how to start a business,
not how to sustain a
business because there are
two different requirements and skillsets.
And so that's so I ended up
going back to school.
I did a master's of
engineering and entrepreneurship.
Absolutely fell in love with it.
And that's actually what
moved me into the career
path of entrepreneurship
and supporting entrepreneurs.
So the more I talk to women
on this podcast and the more I realize,
and it's kind of reassuring.
personally,
is that there is no linear path.
Like oftentimes, you know,
from the outside, we see you successful,
successful leaders,
successful entrepreneurs, you know,
having like getting the accolades and,
you know, having this success in business,
in your career.
But then we don't realize oftentimes,
we question ourselves, right?
But we don't realize that it
is okay to have a non-linear path.
And most of the time,
the path is never as planned.
I've never had a plan.
There's actually a TED talk.
You know,
when this when this level drop it
in the chat.
It's called multi potential light.
And it really opened things
up for me because there are
people you know, I want to be a doctor,
I want to be a pilot,
I want to be this thing.
And, and they're linear,
and they're driven,
and they're hyper focused on that thing.
And then we
I love it.
And it's so perfect.
And I am not that person.
I want to learn something.
And then once I've got a good grasp on it,
I will let it go and move
on to learn the next.
I know that.
I know that.
I'm the same.
I know you are.
That's why we get along so well.
So it's but it is one of the
things and I'd say the
majority of my career,
I've been tapped on the shoulder.
And one of the reasons is
because I bring my
engineering background to me.
And so this ability to see a
problem and be able to map
out what would it look like
to implement around that.
What is it that we're trying
to achieve and how are we
going to get there?
And so almost every job I've
ever had in a corporate
setting has been a brand new role.
There's never been an incumbent.
Sometimes they don't even
have a job title.
They don't even have a salary.
They're still negotiating with HR.
And I'm often brought in to
create the thing.
So it's called
intrapreneurship where
you're sort of in the startup mode,
but inside a larger structured setting.
And so I've had a lot of
that opportunity in my
career and have become a
bit known for it.
And so that's one of the
things that I'll do is I'll
come in and I'll start up a new unit.
And then once it reaches
sort of that steady state,
I'll usually get tapped to
try something new.
So what I'm discovering now, Brooke,
is that you are both an
entrepreneur and an intrapreneur.
Which one do you prefer?
Neither.
It's the variety.
Yeah, it's the variety.
Being able to set my own direction.
and have total control over
the things that I want to do.
And the only limitation is
my ability to gather my own resources.
That's the entrepreneur side of things.
And that's where my coaching
has has led me and where I
love doing that work.
And then the intrapreneur side,
oftentimes it has really
strict boundaries and a lot
of stakeholder management.
So a lot of being able to
navigate and influence
And so that's been another
huge part of that work is
being able to navigate
within a larger corporate setting,
which is all work that I
bring over into my coaching
because learning how to
make recommendations,
learning how to influence others.
These are all a different
kind of communication that
I don't think gets talked
about often enough.
And I feel like as I listen to you,
the way that you can
navigate so easily between both worlds,
it's because you have a
sense of self-awareness, right?
And self-discovery is very important,
especially as a leader,
because when it comes the
time to make a decision,
you know, to lead people,
to inform stakeholders, right,
or investors, and so on.
Or just, you know,
the ability to decide and
take the control of your own path.
You need to be aware of
what's working for you and
what's not working.
What do you like doing and
what don't you like doing?
You know, what are your strengths,
your weaknesses,
your opportunities for growth,
and so on and so on.
So how has your
understanding of yourself
evolved throughout your
leadership career?
And what discoveries did you
surprise you the most?
Oh, I love your questions.
And I love that you did not
give that one to me ahead of time.
So there's been a few things
actually in this that have
really made a difference for me.
So I am a strong advocate for journaling.
And for many of my clients, they're like,
I don't journal.
And that's okay because
sometimes it's the action
of thinking about it.
Although I really think
writing it down has a lot
of outcomes for you because
you can go back and reflect.
And a lot of times the
things that are in our head
feel really well connected
and articulate because we
have all the feelings and
thoughts and fragments of
ideas all woven together like a tapestry.
And when you really take
that time for self-reflection,
it also means picking back
apart the tapestry and
really understanding where
those components are coming
from and having to figure
out how to share that with
someone else to get them on side.
And I think that's really important.
So for me,
it's been actually setting aside
time to reflect.
And it's something that I've
built into all of my one on
one coaching programs.
Yes,
we can have conversation and I'm going
to guide you and listen and
we'll work through challenges together.
But I also love putting
together curator
reflections for my clients
to help them take that a
little bit further on their own.
Your personal journey
involves weightlifting for managing IBS.
So for those of you who
might not know what IBS stands for,
it is irritable bowel syndrome,
which oftentimes also can
be associated with stress.
But this is for another conversation.
So how does physical
resilience contribute to
mental resilience in your case?
It changed everything.
So that job that I mentioned,
the one that like was soul
crushing in terms of volume.
Two of the things that came out of that,
I realize I'm saying too a lot.
There's usually seems to be
like a binary thing that
that oppose and push and
create that tension to want
to make change.
And so one of them was, you know,
I had this amazing
naturopath supporting me.
I had my doctor telling me I
really actually need to make a change.
And then I reached a point
where I just wasn't feeling well.
And so I went out and I
started working with a coach.
And lo and behold,
turns out we ended up
learning how to do
weightlifting and he became
a weightlifting coach,
but and much more than that.
And it really did change a lot.
So yes,
physical structure started to
change in me.
But there was something
really grounding in knowing that my bones,
my joints, my tendons,
my physical self could carry me,
that I actually had the
ability to carry heavy things with ease,
that it was, it sounds almost ridiculous,
but if there was ever an emergency,
I knew I could be useful
because I actually had a
physical capability.
And then it opened up a lot
of other things.
So because I trusted my
physical self in this whole
new way of confidence, I
I checked off my bucket list
and I learned how to ride a motorcycle.
Oh, wow.
Amazing.
Which you need to be able to
handle the machine because
it weighs about 300 pounds, right?
You have to pick it up if
you ever drop it.
You have to navigate it.
You have to move it around.
And I wouldn't have been
able to do that in the past
because I physically wouldn't,
it would have just like,
knocked me over, right?
I just didn't have the strength.
And having that physical
strength for me brought in
a whole new level of
confidence and to do things
that were hard because I
could do things that were hard.
I could pick up heavy things.
I could do hard things
physically in my workouts.
And I knew I could do hard
things in front of me and
that they were temporary
and that I would grow
stronger because of it.
Oh, my God.
You know,
I should start weightlifting then
because I can tell you
definitely a motor bicycle
would take me over.
Like I don't have the
physical strength to handle
like a motor bicycle.
You and I are going to chat
offline after this.
Let's do it.
In your coaching,
you emphasize building
confidence through authentic connections.
And building connections,
let's be honest here.
Building connections
sometimes involves
navigating difficult conversations.
When I hear people talking
about authentic connections, I...
it's most of the time from a
networking perspective or
you know and knowing how to
introduce yourself and
being a good listener and
you know asking the right
questions and what part of
building like authentic
relationships uh and
connections uh is part also
of navigating difficult
conversations so how do you guide leaders
your clients to approach
these conversations intentionally,
ensuring they contribute
positively to the
confidence building process?
Fabulous question.
I love all of it.
Okay.
I'm going to start with what
does this actually mean and
why do you gain confidence
through connections and
authentic connections to your point?
And a huge part of it is,
I don't want to refer to
that networking piece as shallow,
but there are different
types of relationships we have.
We have acquaintances, we may have friends,
and then we have people who
are part of our inner circle.
And when you have someone
that you know really is
truly supporting you,
that they see what you're
trying to accomplish and
they want to be there to
contribute to your success,
that is part of, in my experience,
the confidence building.
So, I mean,
during you and I have had this
conversation back and forth
for ages and I love your podcast.
I am really quick to share it,
to celebrate it because I
know that you're always
having fabulous
conversations and
conversations are gonna
benefit my clients.
And so, you know,
there's this ability to
create that piece.
So that's one part of it.
And I'd say that's the first
part of it is really
looking at the fact that
your network does have
these layers of depth to them.
And so when we talk about shallow,
it's not shallow superficial.
It's shallow just in the
sense that they may not
know the full you.
They may know parts of you
because we're multifaceted.
So that's one part of it.
And I really do believe that
community and connection
can help build confidence.
The second part,
the navigating difficult conversations.
This is such a fabulous one.
And there's a lot of
communication techniques
that can really lean into this one.
One of my personal favorites,
the actual name of it, I'm not a fan of,
it's called nonviolent
communication because it
comes from a very specific
type of negotiation.
But it's actually more the
idea of to be able to
communicate with someone in
a way that doesn't bring shame.
And so when you're having
conversations with them and
you're navigating these
difficult conversations,
that reflection piece that
we talked about earlier
becomes so important
because you need to know
what is reconciliation or
what is a path forward look like.
So if someone has done
something to offend you,
it can't be enough to just say, well,
you've offended me.
okay, well,
what does reparation look like?
What does it look like for
us to come back together?
And so that's a part of it.
The second part is really
starting to analyze for yourself,
what is this narrative in my head?
So if we're having a
difficult conversation,
it means that we're at odds.
We have tension and we have
different perspectives.
And so really getting clear
on your own perspective and
the fact that you've built
a narrative around the
observations and that you've made.
So whether it's tone, whether it's words,
whether it was behavior or action,
you've created a narrative
and you have to reflect on that.
And then the last thing I'll
say is really taking the
time to separate and
pausing in a conversation
to reflect what are the
actual things that I'm observing?
How is this emotionally making me feel?
Why am I feeling these emotions?
And what can I do with this
person to move forward so
that we stay in a relationship, a healthy,
positive relationship?
Those tips are amazing and very practical.
Thank you for sharing those.
You're welcome.
And as I'm listening to you, I'm like,
yeah, but you know,
it requires a lot of
vulnerability to be able to
do all of this, right?
Yes, it does.
Yeah.
Yeah.
However,
many leaders shy away from vulnerability.
So how do you integrate
personal vulnerability into
your professional development?
A few different ways, I think.
There's an element in this
of making sure that when
you think about
vulnerability and
vulnerability within yourself,
what does it actually mean
for you to be vulnerable
and why are you choosing to
be vulnerable?
So are you looking to deepen
this connection with
whoever it is that you're
having conversation or relationship with?
Another piece is to really
think about what can you do
to create a small armor for yourself.
So, for example, yes, I have a podcast.
I actually don't like being
on video in particular.
I've got a little bit of a health tilt.
I, you know,
start to try and monitor myself.
I get super nervous.
And so what do I do to to
help protect myself?
I have this way my painting.
that my mom did for me and
it brings me a lot of joy.
So you'll often find it in videos with me.
I have an Empowered Women,
Empowered Women sign from
my friend Wendy who gave me
this as a gift and it means
so much to me.
I have my Glam Jewels jewelry.
I have my cheekbone lipstick.
These are the things that
are sort of my armor
that when I have them on,
I know I'm on camera and I
know that I am okay.
And so those sort of ground me.
They're almost like
talismans or rituals that
can help to ground me
before I have to be
physically vulnerable by, you know,
in this case, being on camera.
And so that can help.
It can help ground you in yourself.
And then one of the other
things around being
vulnerable is to really
think about what is it that you want as,
again, that reflection.
You really have to know
yourself to know what part
of you you're choosing to
be vulnerable with.
And so I can be vulnerable
about the fact that I had a
health concern because it's
something I'm super
passionate about and I'm an advocate for.
I am going to talk to you
about the fact that
You know, I ride a motorcycle.
And so for some people,
it comes as a shock.
For other people, it's really cool.
For some people,
they think it's a complete death wish.
You know,
everyone has their own narrative
around that.
And that's okay for me.
And so it's really sort of thinking about,
but there's other things
that I won't tell you about.
Because those are the things
that belong to me and don't
need to be public.
Does that make sense?
It does.
It does.
And let me tell you,
you are doing very well on video.
Oh, thank you, my friend.
So...
A question that I like to
ask all the guests is what
would you like to be remembered for?
Oh,
this is a really interesting one
because I find as I've
evolved and as my self-reflection goes,
something that has been
enormously important to me
is I want to be easy to work with.
And that is something that
has really driven me.
And it's been interesting
because post-pandemic,
as we start to move forward,
I've had other people come to me to say,
what are you doing for yourself?
Because they don't see the
full extent of my self-care,
not that I love the term self-care,
but the things that I do to
support my own self.
And so then it becomes,
do I become vulnerable by
showing those pieces?
Do they stay with me?
So sort of going through this,
what do I want to be remembered for?
And so I would say sort of
the two things are, yes,
I do want to be easy to work with.
That is something that's
really important to me.
And I want to leave people
in a place where they feel
ready and capable and able
to make the change that's
been sitting in their
hearts that they don't
necessarily want to acknowledge.
That's why we call impact leadership.
I love it.
You know,
coming back to the vulnerability
piece of leadership and as
how do you become
personally vulnerable when
it comes to evolving as a
professional and as a leader?
It's true that everything
that you said is applicable
to both men and women.
But I feel still like as women.
Being vulnerable can be much more tricky,
right?
Because I feel like there is a fine line,
like the border is quite
thin between being a
vulnerable leader as a
woman and being perceived as weak.
What is your thought on this?
Oh,
I have a lot of thoughts on this
because not just weak,
but also what is what does
assertive look like on the outside?
And how does assertive get perceived?
Because in some ways, as a woman leader,
especially and not just a woman leader,
a leader who cares about
inclusivity and empowering other people,
oftentimes the work you do
is not the visible work.
So for me,
there's an element of leadership
that requires what I'll call servitude,
where you are the servant leader.
You are the one in behind
making sure that everyone
else is shining out in front.
And that can lead to, in some ways,
wanting to protect the
people in front of you from behind.
And that can actually lead
to you losing your sense of
power or leadership or
authority because people
see you're so protected,
you take too much on yourself.
So there's a balance there as well.
There's another balance
around being assertive.
And being assertive can look
like a couple different things.
And you really have to think
about where it is.
So if you are in a negotiation,
are you assertive in your language?
Well, that comes from being well prepared.
Are you assertive in your body language?
Well,
that comes from how confident you are
in yourself.
And then there's another
element where some people
bring a really harsh energy and how
How well are you able to
manage yourself when you're
in the presence of that uncomfortable,
harsh energy?
And I think as a woman leader,
that's one of the things
that we have had a lot of
social training to step back.
So when you have that harsh energy,
we step back from it
instead of standing and
maybe tolerating it,
maybe pushing back against
it or just holding the
tension that sits there.
And a lot of women leaders
do not want to hold that tension.
They want to step back from it.
So that's two of them.
I think those are some of
the things that really shine through.
But then there's one other
element that comes with that.
And sometimes it's about the
ability to influence.
And I think of an amazing
woman that I know.
She was saying that, you know,
when she was in law practice,
she would have her clients
be really quite frustrated with her.
She got them what they wanted,
if not more.
But she wasn't a bully.
in the courtroom.
Instead,
she was working to make sure that
the judge had clarity on
the case and that the judge
had clarity on what
potential outcomes could
come from the case.
She made the judge's life easy.
She wasn't there to berate
her fellow council person.
She was there to make sure
that she got the outcome.
So it was all about
stakeholder management.
And her clients would be
dissatisfied because they
were expecting that courtroom anger
right?
That harsh energy.
And they were expecting that
harsh energy from her.
And she wasn't there to
deliver it because it's not her way.
And so helping people really
understand what you want to
be known for who you are,
and being able to deliver
those results and
recognizing that sometimes, sometimes,
if their expectations keep
mismatching to what you want to deliver,
and the way you want to
deliver it authentically,
it might not be a fit.
And it might be time for a change.
A change, right?
And I feel this is the key word here,
like being able to
understand your environment
and to know yourself enough
so you can decide to change
when the situation doesn't
fit you or doesn't serve you.
That's powerful.
Is there any last thought
that you would like to
share with our audience
before we wrap up this episode?
Oh, I would.
I want to say one of the
things that I value so
strongly and at Best for
Women we really lean into,
there's coaching,
there's self-guided
coaching through reflection,
a lot of these pieces.
And at the core of it,
you heard me talk about
earlier that strength in ourself.
I would say really figuring
out what your health looks like for you.
And really starting to
understand how supporting
your health will give you
the capacity that you need
to keep building on these
skills for leadership and development.
Because when you don't have
enough physical energy,
you can't generate that
energy from within,
you will struggle to reach your goals.
So there has to be a
foundation of health
underneath everything you do.
And what it looks like when
it goes sideways is that
you lose yourself in work
and you sacrifice your sense of self.
Wonderful.
Thank you so much for today's conversation,
Brooke.
That was amazing.
I knew it would be amazing anyway.
And thank you for all the tips,
practical tips, you know,
and for opening up about your own journey,
about becoming a leader and
having an impact on people's lives.
I feel like when we can have
a positive impact,
no matter what it is on people,
this is the most beautiful
and rewarding thing that as
human beings we can do and
we can receive.
Thank you so much.
Thank you so much for having me.
This has been such a fun conversation.
I've really enjoyed it today
and I really appreciate being here.
Thank you.
