Welcome to STANDOUT From The Crowd.
I'm Darine. And if you are anything like me, you have probably been through a few unexpected twists on your journey.
My plan was to be a diplomat, but life had other plans leading me to become an impact entrepreneur and champion for women's leadership. Sometimes life has a funny way of throwing us curveballs.
Right?
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Today, we are going to talk about the culture of hustle, how it leads a lot of us, including myself and I know yourself, to burn out. Managing people's expectations because whether we like it or not, it does have an impact and an influence in the way we live our life and the decisions we make.
And all of this pressure from society and the hustle culture and the burnout and, you know, it does have an impact on our mental and physical health.
Deanna, in this podcast, what I love the most is discovering the unique story behind the woman leaders that we see thriving. Because between you and I, we know that behind closed doors, this is not all glitter and sparkly. Right? I understand.
And there are a lot of things happening.
And so your official title is: you are a licensed naturopathic doctor, former counselor, certified sports nutritionist, strength and conditioning specialist, and a branding strategist dedicated to helping high performance entrepreneurs overcome stress and burnout.
Behind this amazing title, who is Deanna?
Good question. It's a question I'm still trying to figure out, to be honest.
I know it's so cliche when we say, you know, we're more than just our titles, but I think I'm a person I'm a human just like you, just like everybody else in the planet, and someone who's continued to try to find a purpose in life and find joy in in in my everyday life.
Try to live a life that is purposeful without having the society and other people interfere with my definition of a wealthy abundant life, if that makes sense. Mhmm. You know, I have had this conversation before in terms of how the French put living first and they put work second. Right?
Whereas in our society in North America, we're so driven by our titles. We're so driven by our socioeconomic status, by money, by, you know, whatever it is that's the shiny thing on the outside. We wanna show. We wanna show other people who we are. Whereas what I'm trying to figure out with myself is more of how can I show myself all these valuable things and live a life of that value rather than finding that external validation?
Tell us more about the concept of the hustle culture as you have lived it and as you understand it?
The hustle culture essentially is you have to go go go. Even though your intuition, your gut instinct says, I can't go anymore because I have no more to give. But then the hustle culture from the outside says, well, if you don't hustle, you're lazy. You're not gonna get anywhere.
You have nothing to show. If you have nothing to show, then you're a failure. Nobody likes failure. And my background is Chinese, and I, you know, come from a Chinese culture. I was born and raised in China.
And in China, it's very much I don't wanna say it's like North Korea, but it's, you know, very similar because they're both communist countries and everybody's very regimented. Everything's very you know, you have to do things by the books. And there's always a certain level of expectation in society of respect, which I think is a component that I think everybody should have around the world. Kids are taught respect, kids are taught, you know, work ethic, all of these amazing things. But then in addition to that, it's like you have to work to the point where you're sacrificing every component of you because as a collective, we all need to work really, really hard. Otherwise, you know, nobody wants to be left behind.
So then that also is a type of hustle culture where you're not really hustling for yourself. You're hustling for the collective, if that makes sense. Whereas I find North America is like, the hustle culture is very much I have to hustle. I have to work in order for me to be better than you, in order for me to make more money than the person next to me. I think it's ingrained in all of us.
And at a certain point, I think life happens and the universe throws these nudges at us and we start realizing, okay, we really have to slow down. So that's kind of my experience with hustle culture. I like that you are bringing that cultural difference about the hustle culture between China and North America. But, ultimately, down the line, when we are in our thirties and beyond, the impact and the way we behave is the same. Either it was engraved in us, like, at a very young age or through the educational system or even now through the social media impact.
You know, where you see, you know, the successful, quote unquote, of people telling you, yeah. You know, you sleep 8 hours a night. And then it means that you have such and such hours to do your 9 to 5, and then do a second 9 to 5, and this and that. You have to attend those events and take pictures and so on and so on. And it is overwhelming.
But, of course, now that you and I are both in our mid thirties, we have and that we went through it all, I wanna say, or at least a lot of it. We are able to take a step back.
But can you tell us more about the way you handled that pressure in your twenties, the impact it has had on you versus how you handle and manage that pressure now that you are in your mid thirties?
Yeah. That's such a great question.
Night and day. Very short response is night and day. In my twenties, I was so lost, to be honest. I see the kids these days, you know, they're doing so much with their life. And, again, there's always as humans, we're so eager subconsciously and consciously to compare ourselves with other people.
So even now I look at, you know, some people are like, oh, I'm a millionaire or I'm a billionaire at the age of 28. And I'm like, good on you. But then a part of me is like, oh, man. I was, you know, doing all these things when I was 28. What did I miss?
What did I do wrong? Like, what was wrong with me? Yeah. I know that. I know that.
Yeah. In my twenties, I worked you know, I always was, I grew up in a household where my parents were like, you have to go to university. A life is as it would be a sequence of predetermined stops, essentially. That's what life was. And I think for a lot of people, it still is.
You know, you have to go to a university, get a degree, get a job, get a job with a pension, which I did. I used to work for the government of BC in Vancouver. So my mom was very happy because that job has a very good pension. She was not very happy when I left the job because she wanted me to have a good pension 40 years later. So, you know, get married, have kids, a way to die, basically.
So that was kind of the sequence of life. And so in my head, I was like, okay. I need to hustle through school. I didn't really love what I was. I love learning, but I hate taking exams. I hate learning for a purpose, if that makes sense.
I wanna learn for the joy of it to, you know, discover the areas that I'm interested in, but I don't wanna learn to take an exam. Like, it just didn't make sense to me. But I had to hustle through school. I pulled a lot of all nighters, and then I worked 3 jobs at one point to just try to get through school and then try to, I think, find myself. And through that, I resorted to a lot of other things like partying, alcohol, just to numb a lot of feelings and things that came up, you know, as I think as a lot of people do these days.
And those were so temporary. Those were so counterintuitive now thinking about it because they made me less happy. They were so I was so happy in the moment, you know, when you're out listening to amazing music with, you know, sometimes not so great people, but you feel like, okay. I am part of something. I feel this sense of belonging.
And that's what all humans want is we hustle because we wanna belong because everybody else is hustling. So we wanna hustle too. So we feel okay. We're part of this collective thing. So I felt a sense of belonging.
But then, of course, the next day, I'd be really tired. I feel like, oh my gosh. I drank too much or I partied too much. And then this guilt would kick in, and that cycle just continued. And then I would work really, really hard.
The harder I worked, the more I felt, oh my gosh. I deserve to party. I deserve to go crazy. And then, of course, it just continues and continues and continues. And I burnt out so much because I felt like, you know, not sleeping, doing a lot of work, hanging out with friends, that's what success was.
Now I'm in my mid thirties, and I look back at it. And I haven't had a drink, I think, for almost a year now. And it wasn't by choice. It was just kind of like, I don't feel like drinking anymore. The last few years, I felt like I didn't need that because that was always a coping mechanism for me to just numb myself out.
And now I feel so much happier. I sleep better. And if I feel that burnout coming on, like, you know, I you know that I had a family emergency for a while, and I wasn't sleeping properly. And with that, the burnout happened, I think, about 2 months in where my body was just like, oh my god. I can't keep up with this.
And I realized, okay, I need to do something. I need to do something to actively address my nervous system rather than waiting until the end because I was so attentive to my family member at the time that I was like, I can't put myself first. I have to put the other person first. If I don't, then that person might happen. So and then I hit a point where I was like, okay.
But you're going back to your old cycle. You can't unless you take care of yourself, that person, you know, is not gonna get the care that they deserve and you can provide. So I ended up, you know, doing less essentially is what I ended up doing. I would sleep more. And if I felt like, okay, I don't wanna work, then I just don't work.
I do all my client work for about 3, 4 months. I did all the client work, but I did nothing in my business. And it was that point where I was like, it's okay. I I literally had a moment where I was like, life goes on. Everything is fine.
But if I get sick, if I end up in the hospital, I can't there's nothing else I can create from this point. So I think some people have to go to the darkest place in order for them to realize that something needs to change. They can't just keep going and digging that grave for themselves, and that's kind of what people are doing. Right? It's like they're literally digging their own graves at this point.
Mhmm. But, you know, I understand, and I can see one of the major shifts between your twenties and your thirties now is the absence of guilt. Right? And I can relate to that. And, I mean, it took me way longer because until not so long ago, I will still feel that guilt of not doing enough, of not trying hard enough, no matter what my body would tell me until the last, the most recent and the last.
Can I promise that to myself, a breakdown that I had where I ended up in the ER less than a year ago? So it was last year, 2023 in December, where my body just gave up on me. And I felt like it was a big one. It may be one of the biggest lessons where my body was like, okay. Listen. I have given you those signs for months.
But girl, you are stubborn. So now I'm taking over. I'm taking control, and I'm just stopping and shutting everything down because it's time for resetting. It's time to stop that nonsense. And as you said sometimes we have to go through those dark and very hard moments to realize that, okay, you know, self care is not selfish.
Not hustling and not being on the go, especially for us women leaders and high achievers, it's hard because we always feel like we have to prove ourselves. And in order to prove ourselves, we have to work twice harder, 4 times harder, 10 times harder. It is a reality. It may sound cliche. You know, we may be all feminist or not, but at the end of the day, internally, it is within us.
And so let's talk a little bit more about the physical symptoms of, the hustle culture and and and burnout. Burnout can come out in different forms for different people. But let's talk about some of the physical experiences that you went through. In your twenties, you said you were unhappy, essentially. You were in this cycle where, you know, it was never enough.
And you thought that working hard and playing hard was the formula to success. But then you suffered, you struggled with depression and eating disorder. How did you get out of, you know, depression and eating disorders? Because I know it does impact a lot of us and especially a lot of women. And how did you transition from having to struggle and to deal with those illnesses to ensuring that you nurture yourself from within in order to improve your performance, to improve yourself as a woman, as a leader, as an entrepreneur.
For sure, a lot of women really definitely go through a lot of mood issues and, for sure, eating disorders, body dysmorphia, it's I feel like it's getting worse, to be honest, with social media, and men are going through it as well. And I was listening to some stats the other day. It was said that men's rate of body dysmorphia is actually going to exceed women's, which is a little bit alarming. It's really scary. With the eating disorder, to be honest, I struggled a lot when I was a kid.
I used to be a really chubby kid and I used food as a source of comfort. I was very shy, introverted, and had a lot of issues mentally and emotionally when I was a kid. So going into my teenage years, I moved my parents and I moved to Canada when I was in my early teens and didn't speak a word of the language, couldn't understand. So that was another hard hit moment where I was like, wow. I felt like at least I spoke the language and I belonged a little bit, and now I didn't even speak the language, and I'm in this strange land.
Right? So, again, food was part of that. But then on the other side of this is I was going to my, you know, teenage years, and as teenagers, girls especially are very body conscious. So then there's always this tug of war of wanting to eat to soothe myself, but then I gotta be very conscious of my body. So that continued for a little bit.
And then, the depression was always there. I had some fairly dark moments and dark thoughts into my teenage years as well. So that kind of followed me into, I would say, even my mid twenties, late twenties, it was still there. And some days, the depressive moments still creep up. Like, a couple months ago, it was still there. It crept up because I wasn't taking care of myself enough because of the situation I was going through.
And I would just sit there doing dishes or something random. I wouldn't think about anything. I would just start crying because my body is like, okay. Something needs to be released. We need to get something out.
And so that energy wasn't moving properly. So that's kind of the reason why I was, you know, having, eating disorder and I was going through depression. And then body dysmorphia was a huge thing too. I actually went into bodybuilding because I hated my body so much. And a lot of girls actually go into bodybuilding, unfortunately, because of love, for the same reason is because they hate their body so much.
They wanna change it. And the more it's such a vicious cycle because the more you starve yourself, the more your body craves food and and the more distorted an image you have of your body. So, you know, it's such a vicious cycle that kind of went on until my mid twenties. And the reason why I went into naturopathic medicine was because my family members have a lot of mental health issues. So I did my undergrad in psychology, went into counseling, and I realized that the people who are working with our clients and our patients, they didn't really care about the mental health piece.
A lot of them are just collecting pensions, going back to the pension piece. And so I didn't like that. And I was, you know, I always thought that if we do something, we do it with purpose and we do it with heart. And I watched their physical health and condition deteriorate as well because the nutrition was so bad that I would, like, look at the food, and I thought to myself, I wouldn't even feed this to my dog. So people would gain weight.
They, you know, with the medication as well. So their health would be really deteriorating. So in my mind at the time, I thought to myself, this is not the solution to what I wanna do and the ultimate goal that I wanna achieve in terms of helping people. So I went into naturopathic medicine. When I went to naturopathic medicine, I realized it's so much on the physical and so little on the mental that that was also out of balance.
I was trying to find an area where it's untapped, but also people need the most help. And so I started thinking about myself and, you know, as most therapists do and counselors as well, we can only be so empathetic because we've gone through a lot of hardship ourselves. Right? So we know how it feels. We know we can really relate.
So I thought to myself, okay, this the gut is something that I've always had issues with. Stress, nervous system response, and burnout, that's something that I've always had a lot of issues with, so that's why I went into that area. And mental health, of course, addressing mood disorders, depression through food, but also through a lot of mental, emotional work, but more so just understanding yourself and what you really want in life. That actually helps so much with gut health. More and more people and studies are recognizing that the gut is the second brain, and in some occasions, the first brain.
Why is gut health so important?
So let me ask you something.
Other than the air you breathe, what do you voluntarily do every single day?
Like you, most people have to do something other than sleep. What do you put into your body?
Drink. I drink water. I eat food, sometimes too much chocolate. Oh, yeah. That's what I would do.
I would eat, drink, and sleep Mhmm. Yeah. And work.
Yeah. Totally.
So if you think about it, we're constantly putting things into our body, which for you is water and food. For me is water and food, and for some people is pop, alcohol, cigarettes, whatever it may be. Right?
No judgments here. Everyone makes their choices.
But it is something that you voluntarily do every single day, and it's something that you have to do unless some people fast, but then at some point, they have to eat. So your gut is essentially the gateway to everything inside your body. The only 2 I mean, not the only 2, but the opening the 2 openings that are exposed to the outside world is your mouth That goes straight inside your body and your nose and your eyes as well, but we don't really do much with our eyes unless we, you know, look at screens and all that. But the two main things are the air we breathe, the things that we inhale perfume, anything scented and, you know, chemicals in the air, all that. And then the other one is the thing that we put into our body.
And there is a very obvious difference between when we eat a crappy lunch, for example, versus a very nourishing lunch. I don't wanna say healthy because it's such a loaded word as well. And, like, everyone has a definition of healthy these days. So a nourishing lunch and a and a crappy lunch, a crappy lunch, let's say, like, a burger with some fries versus a nourishing lunch is, you know, let's say, a pumpkin stew, homemade with lots of veggies and herbs and spices and all that good stuff. The 2 people are gonna feel completely different afterwards.
1 is gonna feel groggy. They don't wanna move. They don't wanna do anything. Their brain probably isn't gonna think as well. They're probably not gonna be as sharp.
And they're like, oh, I'm just gonna be, you know, on the couch for the rest of the day. They're happy there because the body is having a hard time processing that stuff versus someone who has a nourishing lunch. That is energy. Food is energy. So the type of energy you put into your body is like putting diesel in a gas car.
The car is like, okay. Great. It's liquid, but I don't know what to do with it. It's gonna it's gonna wreck me versus if we put gas in the car, which is the nourishing food, the nutrients. The body's like, okay.
Let's go. I'm ready for whatever adventures you have in mind. Let's do it. Right? We need the nutrients to support every single cell in the body.
And, also, we have a microbiome thing, everybody knows about it. The microbiome essentially I like to think of as different populations of people. If you think about earth itself, there are different populations and different types of people. There are different types of bacteria, and there are good bacteria and bad bacteria. So the bad bacteria loves to feed on certain things, certain nutrients, certain foods versus the good bacteria, like something very, very different.
So for example, the good bacteria really feeds on, you know, fiber, really healthy, good fiber from vegetables versus the bad ones. They love to feed on sugar. So we eat and that's why some people have candida when they have a lot of sugar. Right? Because they're literally feeding the bacteria and telling them to grow, grow, grow, grow, grow, and then the healthy ones get killed off.
So then we're cultivating these little buggers inside who are running us over. So that's why gut health is so important. It's the microbiome and, of course, the microbiome produces all these different things that help the body flourish, nourish, all those things. And our hormones depend on our gut health, our lymphatic system. I mean, everything.
Literally, every single thing. And the gut has a direct connection to the brain. So that's why some people feel brain fog. They feel tired. You know, they have headaches when they don't eat well because the brain is like, okay.
We're not right here. What's going on? Right? So that's why it's so important, especially as entrepreneurs, we wanna be able to think with our minds. We wanna be sharp.
We wanna produce. We wanna, you know, be efficient. We're not gonna have that efficiency if we don't have a healthy gut. So, basically, your gut health has an impact on how you feel from within, ultimately, how you feel from the outside, how you think, your mood, and your productivity as a leader. 100%.
It also alters our mood. The less nourishing foods actually can affect people's moods, people's actual thoughts as well. It's like if my food can determine my thoughts, you know, that's one thing that's so fascinating to me. And, obviously, we're constantly researching those things and looking into that. And I look at a hamburger, and I'm like, what are you gonna make me think tomorrow?
Oh, I like that. The next time I wanna buy a hamburger, I will ask myself this question, and I will ask the hamburger this question. What intrusive thoughts are you gonna plant in my head tomorrow? Where do I get started? I'm aware that my diet is not perfect.
We are going through a lot. Society's expectation, hustle culture, burnout. So how do you know, what are the tips that we can start implementing now maybe just to make us feel better?
The biggest thing I tell people, everybody in general, myself included, and I only started to learn this when I was only in my mid thirties was rather living, walk the walk, let's just say, is that you don't have to be perfect. Nothing needs to be perfect.
Small baby steps. Because a lot of my clients come to me. They're like, what can I do? I want everything, and I will execute every single thing. And I will execute it perfectly so, you know, I can get better in a month.
But it's not that's not it. It's to give yourself grace, give yourself empathy, give yourself understanding, and really just allow yourself to feel into your body. That is the biggest thing. Because we live so much outside of our bodies that if we have, let's say, a stomachache, we don't even know why there's a stomach ache because half the time, we don't even remember what we ate for lunch. So then every little sign in our body is a sign from the body to say, I don't like this.
I like this. Do more of this. Okay. Maybe take a break because we're a little bit, you know, over exerting ourselves. So those are all little signs from the body.
So the first thing to do is really just to take note. You just observe. And that's why meditation, even praying, praying meditation, whatever it may be that people practice is amazing because you're just calming down the noise and just sifting through the inner voice and you're feeling into your body. Because so many people walk around, they don't know their body at all. They know their best friend.
They know their parents. But when something happens to their brother, like, oh, this is new. What is this? But then this probably happened over and over again. They just never really noticed.
And like you said earlier, is that the body keeps nudging until you're like the body's like, okay. You're not listening, so we're gonna have to give you a slap. Yeah. Right? So the first step is really to bring that awareness to listen and give yourself grace.
If you feel like it, okay. I'm bloated today. That's okay. Let's figure it out. And never aim for perfection because that's an illusion.
That's not that you know, some days I'm still bloated, and I know why I'm bloated. And that's okay. And always start from small steps. The small step could be drinking more water. You have no idea how many people I talk to.
Like, how much water do you drink a day? I don't know. About a or 2. I'm like, how can you not know how much water you drink every single day? It's yeah, it really blows my mind.
But also, you know, if I talk to a financial adviser, they could be like people half the people don't know their money. So it's just one of those things that you see so many of those. So take note of your body and then understand what you're putting into your body is the biggest thing. Because once we know what you're putting into the body, we could start understanding what the problems are and how we can start addressing it and not necessarily addressing everything at once. I'm not gonna tell you, Doreen, you're gonna have to take out all your chocolate, and you're gonna be like, well, I'm gonna hate my life because I love my chocolate.
Yes. So I might say, you know, if you let's say you have 5 pieces of chocolate a day, it could be like, okay. Well, how about if you have 4 and then we can substitute something for that 5th piece? It's not about, like, swinging that pendulum from, you know, 60 to negative 60. It's just about going from 60 to 50 and slowly getting back to balance and finding a way to just understand your body, understand what it needs.
And once you understand it, you will know. You start noticing. Let's say someone eats, you know, a lot of cold food and the body is reacting to the cold. And a lot of women do this because as in Chinese medicine, cold is such a sensitive thing for women versus in western medicine is not all it's not very talked about. So a lot of my clients, you know, they're like, oh, I eat salad every day.
I drink, you know, this ice cold water every day. I have, like, an iced tea, all these things. And then we just take out a few things and their body immediately feels better. So it's the little things that only when we have that awareness, what we're doing, can we start addressing. And then the second thing is just, you know, for physical, it's just eating whole foods and experimenting.
Experiment and eat this food, see how your body feels, how you feel an hour later, how you feel a day later. Some people don't like onions. Like my body doesn't like onions, and I toot like a garbage truck after I eat onions. So I'm like, okay, we're staying away from onions then. Right?
Part of that is just experimentation. Stick to one thing that you think you want to try for the next 3 weeks. Don't bounce around and eat whole foods. Whole foods mean something that you can find from a farm, from a farmer, from, you know, the butcher, not something in the middle aisles of the grocery store. I'm sure a lot of people have heard of this.
It's nothing in boxes, nothing in bags, but more so just the fresh stuff from the earth. It's so simple. It's so simple. You make it, you make it sound so simple, but it is so simple. I'm here thinking about the clean girl that you see on social media, the healthy lifestyle, which can be good, but listen.
I consider myself healthy. I will never be that girl. Okay? I will never be the clean girl, from social media. And I like that it's about awareness.
It's about knowing what kind of food you put into your body, but how does your body react to these foods. Right? It doesn't mean that you have to become that girl, that clean girl. It means, like, you have to acknowledge what does good to your body, not what makes you feel good because I do eat my emotions as well. I find comfort in food.
And I think we should find comfort in food, but not in junk food. That's different. So that's my step. That's my big step from learning to find comfort in food that is good for me as opposed to finding comfort in junk food, which I used to do for most part of my life. Yeah.
And so this is the healthy version of me, and I'm proud of this version of me. Right? Keep it simple. Don't overthink it. Don't think that you have to have it all and to have it all figured out because we are a work in progress anyway, and that it has to be all clean and beautiful and aesthetic the way you see it on social media.
And you will notice that I mentioned a lot of social media because like it or not, whether we are aware of it or not, it does have an impact on our mind and the way we perceive, to some extent, our life. I'm a wise woman now in my late thirties. I have enough experience today. I have enough experience now and enough maturity because I did that work and I'm still working again. I'm a work in progress.
I'm like, oh, no. Listen. That's their life. Good for them. This is not my life, and this is not who I was meant to be.
Hence, the importance of understanding what fulfills you, what's your purpose, and, you know, being mindful. We talk a lot about being mindful to others, but how if we start being mindful with ourselves, with the thought we put into our brain and the food that we put into our body and be mindful of our gut health so we can thrive and glow from the inside out.
Exactly. Exactly. And skin, I know, you know, Afroa is one of those brands that's just so good for the skin as I told you that transformed my face.
But also, you know, people think that they buy this line of, you know, skin care brands or whatever it is. It is a magic cure to their skin issues. But the biggest organ on the body is the skin. And so whatever we see on the skin is a reflection of what's going on on the inside. Very true.
Yeah. So if you wanna glue, eat well, and use high quality products. That's it. Exactly. Eat well, feel good, and less is more with everything that you do in life.
Exactly. Less is always more. Yeah. Efficient and effective. What would you like to be remembered for?
What an interesting question. I was actually thinking about this last week. Now that I know you're gonna ask the question, but I went to a funeral last week, and they were talking, you know, people were giving speeches. And I was sitting there, and I was like, well, I wonder what people are gonna say at my funeral. You know, it was just one of those moments where I don't know if you had thoughts like that.
I was like, I wonder what people are gonna say about me. Yeah. It was really interesting. So I think I wanna be remembered as this person who holds space for people to express themselves whether that's hardship, celebration, struggles, whatever may be that hold space for not everybody, certain people. I have my boundaries.
Whole space for people, mhmm, without judgment. It's constantly a work in progress because I do find myself because I'm such a huge introvert, I only allow very few people into my life and I find that I only spend time with very few people. So I'm working on just opening up a little bit more to help more people, but I know that everybody that I come in contact with that I spend, you know, a little bit of time with, I always try to give them my 100%. So I do wanna be remembered as that person who holds space for people unconditionally in a way that is not a detriment to myself, but also giving to the other person, not judgmental, and be able to shed unique insight into the person's situation and help them find relief. Yeah.
That's what I think that's what I wanna be remembered by. Ask me again in a year. The conversation might be different.
Yeah. Exactly.
For the people listening and who are increasing awareness about themselves, where can they reach out to you, and how can you help them become a better version of themselves for themselves?
Yeah. Everything is social. If you just type in Deanna Rose, it will pop up. Because I find a lot of people have the same issues.
I'm actually creating this program where the program is designed to help them realize what is actually important in their own lives and prioritize themselves a little bit more and find that balance and shifting to more of what you and I have talked about is more to living rather than more to working. So that course is coming out soon. That's the only way that people can work with me right now. I'm limiting my other contacts right now, but when that course comes out, I'm gonna be publishing it everywhere. Do not hesitate to give a follow to Deanna on social media.
We talked about, you know, talking the talk and walking the walk, and literally, like, this is what she's doing. She showcases the real version of herself, and she looks amazing and she's amazing. So be mindful of who you follow on social media. And Deanna you want Deanna definitely to be one of them.
Thank you, Darine.
That was so sweet. Thank you. I'm, like, blushing. I hate to say that. That means so much.
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